When Life Falls Apart: Turning Endings Into Initiations for Soul-Led Women with Gemma James

What if the version of you you’re clinging to is the very thing keeping you small?

In this raw and heart-led conversation on The Femme Cast, I sit down with my dear friend and fellow creator, Gemma James, host of the Muse Yourself podcast, to explore the sacred art of reinvention, endings, and emotional alchemy. Together, we unravel the myths of logic and realism that keep soul-led women stuck in cycles of people-pleasing, perfectionism, and fear of starting over.

This isn’t another “bounce back” conversation. It’s about falling apart with purpose—grieving what was, releasing identities that no longer fit, and learning to trust the deep intelligence of your soul. We share stories of career pivots, solo travel, heartbreak, and loss that became the very portals to power, freedom, and radical self-love.

You’ll hear how walking away—from relationships, careers, and comfort zones—can become a rite of passage back home to yourself. From losing everything to finding meaning in the rubble, from clinging to certainty to surrendering to divine timing, this episode invites you to trade logic for alignment and control for creation.

We talk about:

🎤 Redefining endings as initiations
🎤 Solo travel and solitude as catalysts for awakening
🎤 Healing grief and emotional pain through Emotional Alchemy
🎤 Transcending scarcity and safety fears
🎤 Making self-love your new standard
🎤 Trusting your inner voice above every blueprint

Whether you’re navigating a breakup, a career change, or the quiet ache of becoming someone new, this conversation is a mirror for every woman with purpose who’s ever felt the pull toward something more.

Because the truth is — every ending is an initiation. Every heartbreak is holy. Every identity death is an invitation to rise as the woman your soul has always known you to be.

If you’ve been feeling the call to let go, start over, or rewrite your story — this episode is your permission slip.

Connect with Gemma James
Gemma is the creator and host of the Muse Yourself podcast — a space for empowering conversations on self-love, healing, and starting over.

Listen to her podcast:
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/muse-yourself-real-talk-on-self-love-and-starting-over/id1725984271

Follow her on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/museyourselfpodcast/

Subscribe to her VIP list:
https://vip.museyourselfpodcast.com/

✦ Free Gift — The Unapologetic Woman Activation Series
A transformative 3-part guided meditation experience for the woman who knows she’s meant for more.
Reclaim your power, awaken your purpose, and rise unapologetically.
https://thefemmecast.kit.com/activationseries

✦90-Minute Breakthrough Session — Power, Purpose, Impact
A deep-dive session to help ambitious, soul-led women break free from emotional blocks, heal old patterns, and fully reclaim their power, purpose, influence, and impact.
Step fully into your unapologetic era.
https://www.thefemmecast.com/breakthrough

Chapters

• 1:39 Dual-Release And Topic Set-Up
• 4:01 Rebrands And Evolving Purpose
• 8:29 Maria’s Asia Leap And Identity Shedding
• 18:08 Solo Travel As A Catalyst For Reinvention
• 24:48 Logic, Realism, And Bigger Possibilities
• 32:12 Pain As A Portal And Processing Grief
• 43:20 Scarcity, Safety, And Money Stories
• 52:13 Trusting Your Own Voice Over Blueprint Advice
• 59:20 Daily Practices To Become Your Future Self
• 1:03:23 Closing Reflections And Ways To Connect

Transcript

SPEAKER_03: 0:50

Hey you guys, what is up and welcome back to the show. I'm so excited and grateful to have you guys here. Welcome if you're new. Today is a very different vibe here at the Femcast. I am actually going to be sharing with you a conversation that I had with my amazing friend, client, co-collaborator, co-podcaster, Gemma James, the creator and host of the Muse Yourself podcast. If you're not following her, you absolutely should be. She is just this amazing woman with stories of moving through challenges and transformation in such an inspirational and empowering way. So I encourage you all to follow her. We are going to be having a conversation about how we let go of old identities and let endings just be new beginnings. Between the two of us, we've shared many endings and new beginnings. Some of them chosen, some of them not. Some of them we just life happened and we made lemons out of lemonade. And that just got to be the miracle that we didn't know we needed at the time. And even though it didn't feel like it at the time. But either way, magical and amazing things happen when you can just let go of the old and let the new come in and let the endings, although sometimes may cause some grief and may cause some turmoil and some hurt and some pain, always, always, always, always lead to magical new beginnings if you let it. So I hope you'll enjoy today's conversation. Here is me and Gemma James. I will leave all her contact info down below.

SPEAKER_00: 2:32

Welcome back to Muse Yourself, Maria. I'm so happy to have you back. It's been over a year since we recorded an episode today. I'm so excited to be here. You've been a guest on Muse Yourself twice before. So some of my listeners are probably going to be familiar with you. But I wanted to have you back because I just have the most fun recording with you. But for anyone who hasn't heard um either of the previous episodes you've done, or they just need a little bit of a refresher because it's been over a year. Do you want to just reintroduce yourself? And you've had a little bit of a rebrand recently as well.

SPEAKER_03: 3:10

So this is in my whole website's been rebirthed. My branding has been rebirthed. It's it's been a whole transformation. It's actually still in progress. Like I can't say that it's done. I do things slowly, I move very intentionally and I kind of let things evolve and unfold. Um, it's kind of it's something I've had to really learn along the entrepreneurial journey to let that happen. Um but um, you know, I've gone through this kind of evolution of, you know, kind of moving, moving through the different cycles that my my clients or my audience is kind of moving through and getting deeper into the crevices of what um their patterns, their beliefs, their struggles are really trying to open up for them. And yes, it's still a lot of focusing on toxic relationship patterns and people pleasing and codependency and self-sabotage or self-abandonment. But the bigger theme I think that I've really tapped into in all of this and what I've seen in so many people that I've worked with is not so much the breaking the patterns. Yes, that's obviously a benefit to the work, but it's what it's what it opens up on the other side. And I think it goes so much deeper than relationship. Um, and I think we're in this space right now where, you know, I think a lot of women are waking up that to this greater potential that they're capable of and they're not always tapped into. And I think sometimes, you know, the one thing that I've tuned into is how these toxic relationship patterns, these limiting beliefs, these self-abandonment patterns that we have are really designed to help keep us small and keep us from stepping into our fullest potential. And I think that when we start to break away from these patterns and really choose ourselves and focus on ourselves and become um, you know, internally guided, we are capable than so much more than we ever even thought was possible. And I think that's where um that's where the focus of the shift, that's where the shift kind of came and that's where the rebrand kind of came from. So really tapping into that and honing into that and um looking at how you know it translates into, you know, the lives of women every every day, right?

SPEAKER_00: 5:29

Yeah. Yeah, I love that. And I think it ties in so perfectly to what we wanted to talk about today, which is literally go of old identities and that evolution.

SPEAKER_03: 5:43

And for those of you guys who are tuning in from the Femcast, I just wanted to say, like, Gemma's been like, like, we've been in each other's corner for a very long time. And every time we get online together, magic happens. So we kind of have an intention for the episode, but we're gonna make it, it's not gonna be a traditional interview. We're literally two women who are doing the work, who are in it, um, having a real conversation about how we move through. And you can you can actually, and I'm gonna I'm gonna give this to Gemma because it was Gemma's idea for the topic today. Um, but how we move how we move through endings and and and and treat them as new beginnings. So, Gemma, take that away.

SPEAKER_00: 6:27

Yes. Oh, I keep forget it. We're we're putting this out on both of our shows, aren't we? Yeah. We've never done an episode like. So this would be a first. We're just gonna go with it, go with the flow and see what happens. But I'm really excited to be on the femme cast as well. I haven't been on your podcast yet. So I'm really This is the first time. We're gonna give you a high uh a spotlight. Well so for anyone who doesn't know, um, just to give like a really quick intro on me, I know Muse Yourself listeners will already be fairly familiar. Um, but just for anyone tuning in from the Famcast, I am Gemma James. I host a podcast called Muse Yourself. Maria has been the most amazing guest. She's been on the show twice now, so it's amazing to have her back on. Um, and I've undergone a kind of a little bit of a rebrand myself recently as well. So this is also really relevant for me. But Muse Yourself is essentially real talk on self-love and on starting over. I share stories from incredible women, um, also my a lot of my own stories, but mainly stories from amazing women who have come through various challenges and they've built amazing lives on the other side. We talk about reinvention, we talk about what it actually really takes to start over and build a different life. And yeah, it's it's essentially about rewriting the plot, really. Rewriting the plot of your life to be whatever the fuck you want it to be and reclaiming higher.

SPEAKER_03: 8:12

So I fucking love it, and nothing, there's nothing I love more than a reinvention, honestly, when I'm bored.

unknown: 8:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 8:20

And you know, your story. So Maria was first on Muse Yourself over a year ago, and you came on and shared your story of blowing your life up and walking away from it all when you decided to walk away from everything and move to Asia for six months.

SPEAKER_02: 8:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 8:37

Um, that episode is still one of my most downloaded episodes of all time.

SPEAKER_02: 8:42

Seriously. People love that story. It's my favorite story.

SPEAKER_00: 8:47

So if anyone um hasn't caught that, you need to go back and listen to this woman's story. It's incredible. Um, I believe it's episode number eight on Muse Yourself, um, but I'll link it in the show notes as well.

SPEAKER_03: 9:00

Okay, cool. No, honestly, like I love that story. I love telling that story. I think I've told it on your podcast, I've I've told it on Kara's podcast, I've shared it on mine several times. It is literally like talk about endings being new beginnings, right? Like, I mean, it was literally an ending to everything. Like, there was the me before that trip, and there was the me after that trip, and nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing stayed the same. Nothing, right? Yeah, and I think as a people pleaser, I think it was so important for me to go down that road because you know, there there was, you know, I didn't know why I needed to go there, but something in my heart was telling me I needed to. And I just for the first time in my life, I just sort of trusted that internal guidance.

SPEAKER_04: 9:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 9:47

And it led me to this down this journey. It was scary, it was on it, like it had all my worst fears activated, right? Um, but I think that there, and I couldn't figure out why it was why my life was sending me there, why I was being guided there. And I think in in when I look back, because you know hindsight's always 2020.

SPEAKER_04: 10:08

Of course.

SPEAKER_03: 10:08

I think when I look back, I think it was almost like um an incubator for me to really step away from all the roles, um, the personas, the masks that I had been wearing for so long, and really just start to rediscover who I am again.

SPEAKER_00: 10:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 10:29

And I think that's what the purpose uh it served was.

SPEAKER_00: 10:32

It's such a powerful story. And I think, do you want to so just to recap super quickly for anyone who hasn't heard the full episode yet, you walked away from your relationship at the time, from your job, from your apartment. You got you just blew it all up. Literally. And most of my friendships too. Yeah, and just walked away. And I'm a teenager for six months.

SPEAKER_03: 11:00

Yeah. I went, I used to I used to always joke. I went from walking around downtown Toronto, like like you know, downtown office, uh, what's it called? Like the financial district of downtown Toronto and pumps and and and you know, my blackberry at the time, I think it was. But I loved my blackberry.

unknown: 11:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 11:19

To like, you know, bumming around Southeast Asia and flip-flops and uncombed hair and and you know, leaving my like I I remember I went with I had this um pretty not a ginormous suitcase, but I had a good size suitcase because I was dressed for different seasons, right? Because some of the climates I was going to were colder than others. Um, so I had to pack for different seasons. So I had to bring a few different things. And then um, plus I'd never really, I'd never really traveled. I had gone on vacation, but I'd never really traveled before. Um, so and I was used to cushy things and I was used to my things. I'm a Taurus. I like my, I like my, you know, my toiletries. I like my little knick-knacks that make me feel like I'm home and pampered and whatnot. And so, you know, I kind of go there and I bring this big suitcase of stuff with me and I'm lugging it around with me everywhere. And it was fine. I, I mean, I could deal with it. But then by the time the trip was like towards the end, like the last couple of months, I kind of said, fuck it. Like, I just like left my suitcase in like this hostel that I was staying. I'm like, dude, can I just like leave this with you for a few weeks? I'll be back. And then just like took like a little like it was barely a knapsack. It was like one of those little like um string packs that you get at a marathon.

SPEAKER_00: 14:14

Oh my god, I could never as you're as you're talking, all I'm thinking about is that wouldn't even hold my skincare.

SPEAKER_03: 14:20

And I was like, I had like my swimsuit, I had I I can't remember what I had in there. I have my swimsuit, my phone, my charger. Um, actually, no, sorry, I'm lying. I'm lying. It wasn't the it wasn't the string, it was a regular backpack. Sorry, I'm lying. It was a regular backpack, but it was a smaller size. I'm remembering it now. And I it had this like black and grayish yellow trim. Um, and I remember I had my swimsuit in there. I had a couple of change of like fresh like underwear in there. I had some shorts, some tanks, and that was it. And that was all I had with me. And I just went island hopping. And I think I came back, I don't know how many weeks later. The guy's like, I didn't think you were coming back. I was literally getting ready to throw your like sold all your stuff. Oh, and I had my documents with me. Thank God. So if that had happened, I mean not the end of the world, but you've done a lot of travel too. Like you've I think one of the reasons why we connect so well is because you've done the same thing. Like you've up and root like re-root, like rerooted yourself over and over again. Yeah. And that takes, you know, I think that I think initially it takes so much courage to do that, but then, you know, as you start to do it, like I think every woman needs to do that at some point in your in her life. 100%.

SPEAKER_00: 15:33

I say that I think every woman, if she is in a position to like financially, and I understand, you know, some people have people, children depending on them. If you're in a position to, I think the most important thing you can do for yourself in this life is to spend some time solo traveling and/or saying alone. I think every woman should also experience living alone.

SPEAKER_03: 15:59

It's so important to being able to even be in a healthy relationship because you you take that element of needing someone to be there, which is what usually sends us down the path of making the wrong choice.

SPEAKER_04: 16:12

Right.

SPEAKER_03: 16:12

When you don't need somebody to be there and you know you're okay on your own and you can happily stand by and wait for that amazing person to show up in your life, I think it's a very empowered place to be, right?

SPEAKER_00: 16:24

Absolutely. Yeah. And so as you said, I've done a lot of of traveling, of blowing it up, walking away, starting over. Um and I think what's interesting is and in the beginning for me, initially, it wasn't a choice. Um, so I think it's interesting to kind of explore that in the uh the letting go of old identities um and not clinging to the past and the differences of when it is your choice and when it's not your choice, when it's something that happens to you. And I think just to kind of recap for the famcast listeners who won't be familiar with my story, just to give you a really quick background. Um initially, so back in 2017, I was close to turning 30 and my world kind of imploded, like drastic ego death. Um, my husband passed away really unexpectedly. He was sick, but we didn't know he was sick because he didn't have any symptoms. He was an athlete, very like the healthiest guy you could meet. Um, and we found out that he had cancer and he passed away really, really shortly after that. So it was out of the blue. He was 30. Um, and four weeks to the day actually after that, I got laid off from my job and then ended up losing our home as well. Um, just to put the cherry on top, because obviously I'd gone from having two incomes to having no incomes. So it was literally an entire ego death, an identity death, um, not of my choosing at the time. And yeah, I I was kind of trying to figure all of that out pretty much on my own at that point, because, and this is another story for another time, but I did not have a good relationship with my family. We'd been estranged really for quite some years before that because they hadn't agreed with my decision to go to college and I'd gone and done it anyway. Um, so we didn't, we didn't have a good relationship, and we were just kind of starting to get back in touch again after years of not talking, um, whenever all this happened. So I was pretty much trying to navigate this huge life implosion alone. And I when I'd lost our home, I had to pack up all of our stuff. I found an apartment that I could move into in kind of short notice, um, which yeah, it it definitely wasn't the best. But beggars can't be choosers in that kind of scenario. Yeah. And I just remember thinking, like, what the fuck is happening in in a matter of all in around three months altogether?

SPEAKER_03: 19:21

Like, oh my god, how do you even recover from that?

SPEAKER_00: 19:24

Like your nervous system must have been just I was just so in shock. I was just kind of functioning, going like you you just have to. I mean, no one else is gonna do the stuff, no one else is gonna pack up the apartment and find somewhere to live and you know, make sure you have a roof over your head, all that you go into practical survival mode, I think. Yeah. But whenever that had calmed down and I was in the I'd moved into my new place, I just remember I was in this place of I would wake up in the morning and literally think, like, I don't have any reason to get out of bed today. Like, literally, I don't I didn't have a job still at that point. And yeah, I would just wake up and think like there's literally no no point to getting up. And I started thinking at so at this point, I I didn't really know much about podcasts. There it was new to me. And so I started telling myself when I'd wake up in the morning, like all you have to do, you don't have to think about the rest of the day. All you have to do is just get up. If you get up and go to the kitchen, make a cup of coffee, then you can listen to your podcast. That's all you have to do. You don't have to think about what's gonna happen after that, or uh, how you're gonna sort that shit out. Just if you get out of bed, you can listen to your podcast. And so that became my like little anchor every morning to getting up. Um, and that yeah, I was so I would start listening to these podcasts of women, like sharing their incredible stories of challenges they'd overcome, how they'd created amazing lives of themselves on the other side. And that started to be my inspiration and my, I guess, thing that kept me moving forward and started opening my mind to I guess moving me out of my victim mindset and thinking, okay, well, I get to choose how I show up here and what this means for me moving forward. And wow. So that was, yeah, I started. That was literally, I mean, it's not an exaggeration, I don't think, to say that those podcasts saved my life. I think. Um I say that all the time about my podcasts. Yeah. So I started it just kind of gradually putting one foot in front of the other. I'd I put got a new job, moved into a better apartment. Um, but then yeah, to to kind of bring it, that was a bit of a tangent, to bring it all full circle to what your question actually was. Um, and that was what started where travel started for me. Yeah. Um, I'd kind of put some semblance of a life back together, but it just wasn't feeling like me. It was like I tried to cling on to the old identity, or I was trying to get her back, and she was already gone, and I hadn't come to terms with the fact that like it's I was thinking, oh, how do I get back to myself? There was no getting back to her because she was gone. There's nothing like you can't be the same person after something happens to you, even if you want to, like, she just wasn't there anymore. So it was this process of me learning to accept that, and we we went into COVID and lockdown happened around that time then. And I was so I had all that time to myself, and coming through the other side of that, I'd been able to really sit with this feeling of okay, she's gone. And I, you know, I'm not quite sure where my place is anymore. Like, I who do I want to be moving forward? Who do I want to create here? Like, who's this woman who I'm bringing into this next chapter with me? And that was when, so after literally as soon as lockdown was lifted and we were allowed to travel again, I booked a ticket. I didn't tell anyone. I I'd never solo traveled before ever. I booked a ticket to the US. Um, I'm originally from Ireland, but was living in London at this time. I booked yeah, a ticket for my my first ever solo travel trip, three months in the US. I didn't tell anyone. I packed a bag, or I told I told people maybe like a week before I was due to leave, just game. Got on a plane to the other side of the world completely alone. I dreamed of going to New York. I did it's just my soul home. I knew even before before I'd ever been there. So I booked a ticket, three months, got on a plane, knew absolutely no one, and I stepped off the plane on the other side and just thought like this trip is gonna change my life. I don't know how, but I know in my soul that this trip is gonna change my life. Yeah, I did. I just I fell in love with the version of me that I became and the life that for the first time I was able to see was possible, and it just completely changed my vision for everything. Oh my god. I came back after those three months and was like, okay, this is what needs to happen. I need to give up my apartment and give away everything I own or try and sell it, and I need to just travel full-time from that. I I don't know what's gonna come of it. I just know in my soul it's the right thing to do, and this like is yeah, it's just what I'm meant to do. So that was the end of 2021, and I've been kind of nomadic ever since.

SPEAKER_02: 25:08

I love it.

SPEAKER_03: 25:10

Um, I think listening to that soul call is just so important. Like when you know that something feels right, but you can't figure out why, and there's no logical reason for it, and it certainly doesn't fit anyone else's standard of what a logical or good life decision is. I didn't tell anybody either when I had booked my trip. I think people found out a couple weeks before I was leaving for six months, and everyone and their mother was telling me I was gonna end up on the black market somewhere, and I'm like, it's gonna be fine. Right. But I think um like everything that like, first of all, your story always makes just my heart move through so many different emotions. Um like listening to you, I get inspired, I get goosebumps, I I feel the grief of just that that sense of loss and how quickly it happened and how painful that must have been, and also like opening up to the possibility of where that was leading you, right? Like, I mean, look at how I mean, I don't want to say it was like divine intervention or your purpose, but I mean, something about it, even though it was, you know, and I always say this pain is just this magical portal of transformation, right? When you let it, um like it's just so like as painful as it was, it was so magical how it all unfolded after that, right? And I think that the one thing I can relate to is number one, you know, when I go back to that first apartment that I got after my long-term relationship ended, I was trying to relive the same life. Yeah, I was still cooking the same meals, I was cooking the same times, I was spending my Saturdays like cleaning my apartment and doing my lot, like I had the exact, I was I took the exact same routine, exact same life, and replanted it into this whole and I couldn't get it to work and I was frustrated, and I kept, I was out there dating and I kept attracting one. This was my douchebag era, which I talk about a lot on the podcast, one toxic person after another, each one worse than the last. And it was just like I I think it was it would there was a moment there where you're right where you're kind of I can't be that person anymore. I just can't. Like no matter how hard I try, it's just it's not working. And I think you just get so tired of trying that you have no choice but to listen to whatever yours. And I think sometimes that is that is almost divine intervention, right? Or divine solutions, right? Like when the exasperation of the problem becomes a solution, you get so tired of trying to fight yourself that you give in and you just kind of let go and you just kind of you know free fall. And there's something always there to catch you, you know, even though it's scary. Even though it's when I went to Asia, when I booked my trip, I didn't have the money. I didn't know how I was gonna pay for it. When I booked the flight, it was because I hate to say this, I'm such a like, oh my god, like I've never felt more like entitled first world ever. But I booked the flight after the bombings in Bangkok happened and the prices dropped for travel to Thailand. And I was like, wow, this fare is normally like twice that amount. I'm like, that's interesting. Book I didn't have the money, I didn't have a plan, I didn't know nothing. Um, and literally the money showed up. I got a part-time, I got a full-time well, it was a part-time, it was a full-time job, but it was definitely not I was I wasn't vibing with it, like just not at all. And I like I think two months in they went bankrupt. And so all the employees got a payout after the bankruptcy, which covered my trip. It always shows up. Like it just literally fell in my lap.

SPEAKER_00: 29:15

I worked just after COVID, like we were kind of just coming out the other side of COVID. So I also exploited lower price. I I think I yeah. The what that trip cost me at that time, it would be it would be more than double now, I think. Yeah. But I remember booking it as well. Um when so it had come on the news that the travel ban was gonna be lifted to the US. So I was like, right, brilliant. I'm booking it. I went gone before it had actually so I'd booked everything when it had only been announced that the travel ban was gonna be lifted, not when it had been lifted. So I was relying on the fact that it was actually gonna be lifted. So I booked and paid for everything. It was non-refundable, and then the days kept going by. And was it Trump at the time? Did you guys have Trump in 2020? Or was it Biden? I can't remember. Um, but anyway, whoever your president was at the time then delayed lifting the the like the entry ban into the US. Yeah. Like, shit, I've spent all my money, I've booked these tickets, nothing's your fun of, and you're like, you said you were gonna start flying entry again, but you're not. So every day I would be like checking the news, like, shit, are we actually allowed to fly into the US yet? And I remember just like over and over to myself, like, it's gonna be fine, it's gonna be fine, it's gonna be fine. And that I was starting to get really, really nervous. It was only maybe a couple of weeks before my trip when they actually started allowing people um into the US again. It was like shit, yeah, cut that a bit fine, but it all worked out.

SPEAKER_03: 30:56

So it's definitely like I said, like a call to faith, right? And listening to your soul and and trusting that no matter how crazy it sounds, in some way it's gonna work out. Yeah, it has to.

SPEAKER_00: 31:09

I think like to go back to what you were saying before when you were thinking about your trip and when you just went for it, that it didn't seem logical. No, I just feel like we need to get rid of that word. Like we should get rid of the word logical because it logic needs to expire fast. The most incredible things in my life have been the ones that haven't made sense on paper.

SPEAKER_03: 31:32

They've not been logical decisions I've made that have led to the most amazing things have been logical, untimely, the inconvenient, the wild card, the shit you didn't see coming, the stuff you didn't plan for. That's always the most magical pieces.

SPEAKER_00: 31:48

We need to get rid of the words logical and realistic, I think, as well. Because no one, who the fuck decides what's realistic for you? You get to decide that.

SPEAKER_03: 31:57

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I, you know, I think that's probably why I've stopped asking people for advice years ago, is because I realized not that people are always being realistic or logical, but I I do think that, you know, we can only give advice from our own experience, right? And we can only give advice from our own perspective. And if you're not somebody who questions what's realistic or who questions what's logical or questions Questions, what's practical? It's really hard to give advice to somebody like us who's literally living in the illogical, like constantly, right? We're always defying the odds.

SPEAKER_00: 32:35

We're always we only want to exist in the illogical.

SPEAKER_03: 32:38

Yeah. I I have no desire to exist in the logical. None. I mean, and I am and I am a Taurus. Like logic is a thing for me, right? So, but it's like it's it just it's been this constant. I think one of the biggest things that I've had to transform within myself is this need to constantly have everything figured out to know exactly like I to know my five-year plan, right? To know the steps that are gonna get me there. And I still fall back into those patterns sometimes. And that's when I know that it's time to just let go and just trust. And that that I think trust and surrender, I think have been the hardest lessons for me to learn. But they've also they've also ushered in some of the biggest blessings in my life and things that have, you know, figured themselves out that I never could have figured out because I didn't have the wherewithal, right? Like the podcast is an example. I think when I first got the inclination that, and it was in a meditation, and this was when I first started my spiritual practice. And let me be clear, I did not have a spiritual practice before my big life blow up. Okay. Like my idea of spiritual practice was going to church every couple of times of year for the high holidays and you know, getting a coffee every morning. That was my spiritual practice. Okay. Um, and so when I started on this journey and I started exploring personal development and spirituality, and I started my meditation practice, I, you know, I started to have visions and I started to have the just these messages. The sim, it wasn't like clear instructions, like it wasn't like watching like a home movie or anything, but you know, I would get these symbols and messages and words that would kind of when I would piece them together, would all make sense. And I remember doing a meditation one time, and I remember seeing myself, and this was probably like 2012, 2011. So I don't even know if podcasting was a thing or if it was, it was just the nerds in their mom's basement that were doing it. Like it certainly wasn't me, like you know. Um, and so I had this vision that I was on a stage and I was speaking on a microphone similar to this, and I was and I I I knew there was so many people out in the audience, but I couldn't see them. But I knew they were there, right? And so who knew podcasting was a thing, and then that's what that was alluding to, right? Um, so there you have it, right? Sometimes, sometimes you have no idea where life is taking you because it's not even in your logical realm of possibility. So, how will you ever get there if you're trying to do it in a logical way? You can't.

SPEAKER_00: 35:24

Yeah, and we I think as well have no concept of even when we think we're dreaming as big as we can possibly dream, and we're we're both expansive thinkers, but we still can't even grasp anywhere near like the realm of possibilities there are for us. We don't know what we don't know because we don't know it. So even when we think we're dreaming massively, there's still so much more for us that that we're not capable of seeing.

SPEAKER_03: 35:56

Do you ever think that that limited thinking, like sometimes the lens, like sometimes I wonder if that's that in and itself is is kind of self-sabotage, right? When we're not when we're so focused. Have you ever been there where you get so focused on a goal or an outcome? Right. But the goal or the outcome is like a fraction of what you're you're actually trying to do or here to do. And so you're so focused on this little tiny minute result that you're missing the bigger picture. So you're almost like it's almost like you're shooting yourself in the foot with that, right?

SPEAKER_00: 36:27

Well, I had this experience in uh a coaching session that I had a couple of weeks ago that I've told you about. But yeah, I was so focused. I was thinking like I get starting the podcast and I did that. Like I have this feeling like I I want to use my story and everything I've been through and everything I've learned and figured out along the way. I know that there's some way that I'm supposed to use that to help people. I just kind of pin down what that is. So I'd been thinking my I get I'd let myself go in the logical mind. Um I was thinking, okay, well, it makes sense on paper if I were to create some kind of coaching program with this or something. Because that's you know what I'm looking around, seeing everyone else doing with their podcasts and like that, it seems to be the most reasonable thing to do. And I was getting so caught up because it it didn't feel right. So I wasn't when I was trying to plan it, it just nothing, nothing felt right. I just couldn't vibe with it, and I was getting really frustrated with myself at not like being able to figure out why. And I was telling this to someone I was on a coaching call with, and she was like, But don't you realize like this story you've just told me? What if that was like a Netflix series or someone made a movie? What if you wrote a book and then it got made into a movie? Like, do you know Cheryl Straight?

SPEAKER_02: 40:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 40:20

Yeah, she was like, What if this is your Cheryl Strade story? And like you, it's that it's supposed to impact and help people on an even bigger level than what you're thinking. And so that kind of I guess, yeah, just to what we were speaking to. Like I was so caught up in this. What I was thinking was expansive thinking, and then sometimes it takes someone else to make you realize actually, no, you're still thinking small, like there's even bigger available to you than what you can see.

SPEAKER_03: 40:54

And one thing I always like to like ask myself is you know, like when I get stuck on an idea or I get stuck on a result, and sometimes it clicks clicks and sometimes it doesn't, but sometimes I decided to ask myself is what would this look like if it were even bigger than what I was imagining? And just force myself to kind of stretch it a little bit and see, right? And sometimes it starts to resonate, sometimes it doesn't, and I leave it. Um, but just being open, and I think it was always Gabby Bernstein who always said, This or something better.

SPEAKER_04: 41:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 41:24

You know, whenever you're setting an intention, right? This or something better because sometimes, sometimes the world has something so much bigger in mind for you than you can even comprehend. And if you get fixated on that one little minute thing, you're gonna miss it, right? Because you're gonna be so focused on that, you're gonna miss the signs and the synchronicities that are leading you down a totally different or bigger or larger or whatever path, right?

SPEAKER_00: 41:49

Yeah, it's it's infinite. There are infinite available for us, and sometimes we don't realize how small we're thinking. It's so true.

SPEAKER_03: 41:59

You know what else I really love that you said, and it was funny because it kind of builds this beautiful contrast to our because you like you said, right? Your experience was, you know, you didn't choose this, it kind of chose you, right? With me, it kind of chose me because I literally just made the decision. No, this stops now, and I blew up my life. Your life blew itself up for you. So here you are trying to rebuild your life. Here I am in Southeast Asia. We're both asking the same question from two different perspectives, and that was, what do I do now? Right? You're looking at it from this. Yeah, you're looking at it from the sense of what the fuck do I even do now? Here I am by myself. I feel like I'm all alone. You know, I don't even know what reason to get out of bed for in the morning. And you you just started with that golden thread, the podcast, listening to podcasts. For me, it was that became my MO. Was like, okay, this is the I'm I'm here. I'm far away from everything I've ever known. There is not a single voice in my head telling me what to do right now or what I should be or or what I should be doing with my life. So every morning I'm gonna get up and I'm gonna ask myself, what is it that I feel like doing today? And just go with it. And it became and and and that in itself was I think that is where we start to rediscover ourselves. I think that's where a lot of times these moments that we go through, and I think that is the key to rediscovery and and and reinvention and and letting go of the old identity is asking yourself, who do I feel like I need to be right now? What do I want? Like when I let go of all the external voices and opinions and the logic and the ideals and the and the expectations, like what is it that my soul is asking for right now? What do I really need and who do I want to be going forward? From if you pick a point, a marker, and it doesn't have to be around a big life blow-up. I mean, it could be if you wanted to, sure, why not? But it doesn't have to be. But if you can just start asking that question, I think that I think is the turning point and trusting the illogical that comes through when you ask that question, I think is really important.

SPEAKER_00: 44:11

Yeah. How do you think we can start to quit that cycle of trying to cling on to an old identity or something? I'm interested in this from your point of view, and also because of the work that you do, you work with women um around this topic. Yeah, how do you think we can start to quit that cycle of trying to cling to something that just isn't us anymore? And all that is something that's not working, that maybe worked for a past version of us. 100%.

SPEAKER_03: 44:45

I can I can I've actually talked a lot a lot about this recently. And because I, you know, I experienced it, and I find that a lot of women, especially like, you know, as you start to to to move, if if you're breaking your people pleasing patterns and you're on this path of rediscovering yourself, and a lot of my clients have actually been through narcissistic relationships, and so and and I will focus on that because there's something very unique about a woman who has moved through narcissistic type of relationship or narcissistic, I've been a with a partner who has narcissistic tendencies, and that is, you know, they always say the same thing, they have this desire, they say, you know, I just wish I could be the woman that I was before that relationship happened, because those relationships really do change you. And and at first, and I do think it's helping you in your evolution, and I do think ultimately it's actually helping, they actually do help you to step into your power by triggering the very parts of you that need your love and attention, right? In order to do so. Um, but being in it and being in the middle of it and before you're on that other side, it can feel daunting. And you just want to get back to the person who you were before that relationship happened. Because when you're in it, you you do tend to, and I hate to say this because we're never damaged, we're never broken, but you feel that way, right? You feel like you've lost a part of yourself, you feel like you've lost your confidence, you feel like you've lost your sanity, you feel like you've lost self-trust, like you can't trust your intuition anymore, you can't trust your decisions, you can't trust to choose the right partner, to say the right things, to do the right things. You can't even trust if whose fault it was that the relationship fell apart because so much of that was manipulated and put onto you, right? And so what I always say to women and what I say to myself, and and what I, you know, what I've made sort of um a practice out of is saying, um, you know, when you move through something so challenging and so painful, whether it's the loss of a loved one, whether it's a narcissistic abusive relationship, whether it's just losing everything and starting over from scratch, right? Doesn't matter what it is, there's a lot of pain and growth and transformation that happens, right? And I always say pain is a portal, it is a portal to the next level, to your next level self. And I think that those moments when we're in so much pain and so much turmoil and so much letting go, where everything just, you know, we're finally being stripped of everything that has been keeping us cozy and comfy, you know, that is where our biggest expansion happens. And so when we're constantly clinging to who we were before, not only are we basically telling ourselves, hey, I just went through all that in vain, because I just want to go back to the person I was before all this happened so I can relive it again. Because that's ultimately what will keep happening. As you keep going back, you'll have to go through that again because your soul, I you need to see it as a soul evolution. And your soul is asking to evolve. So by going back, not only are you doing a disservice to everything that you just went through and and and experience and how you've evolved, but you're also literally setting yourself up to repeat it again. Now, if you want to go through that again, by all means, but I would strongly advise you to lean into what's coming up for you, where where do you want to go next? If you were to, if you, if you were to just again find that little golden thread, just like you did, whether it's just listening to a podcast that inspires you, whether it's journaling an idea of who do I want to be now on the other side of all of this, what have I learned? What has it taught me about who I want to be going forward? And just start to pick at that golden thread. And slowly, slowly, the new version of you will start to reveal itself. It's not something that you can plan, it's not something you can strategize, there's no cheat sheet for it, there's no like survey for it. You're not gonna find it in the in in one of those cosmos surveys that we always love to do as women, right? It's not, it's not there. You just need to let it reveal itself to you, and it reveals itself to you when you let go. The more you let go of your old identity, the more you surrender to where you are now, the more bits that are revealed to you as you move forward one at one after the next, after the next.

SPEAKER_00: 49:22

And the more you stop trying to be logical about it. Exactly. It'll be revealed to you. Yeah, I just think like the grief is so real, isn't it? And grief is a real of someone who we once were, and I can relate to that so much, if it like in a slightly different way, but in in my situation, I just remember this profound feeling of not knowing where I fit anymore, and like looking around. I was still at this point living in the city that I'd lived in with my husband and where we'd built our life together. And I just remember looking around at everyone in my life like who just seemed to be doing all of the things I thought I would be doing. And it just Yeah, I just had this feeling of I I don't know where my place is anymore in the world. I don't I I have this feeling that it's just not here anymore, that this time has the chapter has come to an end, but I don't know what's next. But yeah, the grief that there's yeah, that can come from that realization and from letting that version of ourselves go.

SPEAKER_02: 50:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 50:35

It's very, very real and not something to be glossed over or glamorized. Um absolutely not. And I think for me, and again, agreeing with what you said, like the key for me was to just absolute absolutely start surrounding myself with and almost brainwashing myself with the evidence of what was possible for me if I actually chose to embrace this instead of that is powerful. Yeah. By which going back to you know, the the podcasts and surrounding myself with these stories from inspiring women. Yeah, and I think when I say what was possible for me if I embrace this, I don't mean that you immediately need to be jumping with joy or no embracing in that way. I just mean opening our minds, even just the smallest amount, to the possibility to entertain the idea that we can create something new from this and that we get to decide what this means for us. Because I think the regardless of what happens, what it life's gonna throw us all kinds of shit, right? Life's gonna like the one thing we're always in control of 100% of the time is how we choose to see things and what we choose to make those things mean about us and for us, and the new identity that we give ourselves as a result of it, like what we start telling ourselves about ourselves as a result of the things that have happened to us is incredibly powerful in helping us move forward.

SPEAKER_03: 52:19

So true, so true. It's it's it's we get to choose the unwritten part of the story, right? We know what's happened, we know how painful it was, we know that you know it was uh difficult to move through, but we do get to choose the unwritten part of that story and what comes next. But what I love what you said, and I'm I always encourage women to do this. Yes, you can find your next steps and figure out who you're becoming and how you want to evolve through this, but taking the time to process the feelings. You know, I always say this if people were pro if people would process their feelings properly, I would have no clients. Right? Because that's what often happens is the emotions get stuck because we don't allow ourselves to move through them. We feel like we need to rush it, we need to put a timestamp on it. Well, when is this gonna be done? And when is this grief gonna be over? And when am I gonna be able to get my life back? You know, you just gotta let it be and trust that even in those difficult moments when the emotions get really hard and really heavy, that they are serving you in a powerful way. It's all in how we see our emotions. I think that's the toxic part and the unhealthy part. There's nothing unhealthy about an emotional experience. It doesn't matter what the emotion is, it's what we make it mean, what we make it the stories we make it, we tell about what it says about who we are, yeah, and how we project it onto other people or how we suppress it, right? And I think that's what becomes toxic. But you're you're the the amount of you know, the amount of grief that you moved through during that time, you know, and and just that intention of hey, I'm just gonna surround myself with possibilities that you know maybe I wouldn't normally see in my life. That is so powerful.

SPEAKER_00: 54:10

And I think that was the biggest thing that came from starting to travel for me as well. That particularly that first time I went to New York, that was one of the biggest things for me. It was getting for the first time to see a version of a life that hadn't been modeled for me before, getting to see something bigger than what was familiar to me. And it was almost uh, I guess a more amplified version of what I've been doing at the beginning of listening to the podcast, but from my little apartment that I was trying to figure out my way out of, and that was kind of transporting me that way. But then the track I totally see you in New York. But yeah, so I've never connected that before. I guess what I I was trying to do with the podcast at that time, it was transport myself into a world of different possibilities, wasn't it? And then when I was in a position to be able to take that trip and start traveling, that was the real life version of it.

SPEAKER_03: 55:11

Wow. Can I ask you a question though? Because I'm curious. Do you think that do you think that there was a because I I know this was true for me, and you said something, and I can't remember what you said, but something kind of triggered that thought for me. I think it was in the who am I now that you know my my husband is gone, right? My partner is gone. Like, do you think there was there's a part of you, because I know this rang true for me. There was a part of me that when my relationship ended, and it was a long-term relationship, that we had been together for like 15 years, right? So for me, like my future was cemented with this person. Like there was no doubt, and you know, it was, it was, it was kind of like the rest of my life was with him, you know, in my mind, and and and you know, the life that we were gonna create was gonna be together. And so that ended. I kind of felt like I didn't know who I was anymore. Like, can you like is that something like I'm wondering if that was an invitation to really step into and create like our own identity, you know, and our own sense of purpose in life without someone there. I don't know. I I'm curious what your thoughts are on that.

SPEAKER_00: 56:18

I've given this a lot of thought over the years as well, because I don't class myself as someone who would kind of create their identity around a man. I've always been incredibly independent. I mean, I left my family behind at like 18 to move to a different country alone, even though I knew they'd probably never talk to me again, and I created an entirely new life for myself. Um, so I've always been really, really fiercely independent. And yeah, the idea I've thought about this over the years, and the idea didn't sit right with me, thinking, like, does that mean did I tie my identity to this or whatever? But I think what it is is well, it in from my story specifically, it wasn't that I ever tied my identity up in being someone's wife or someone's partner. It was just for me, the fact that all of the various things that make up our identities went away at the same time. So my whole identity wasn't being in someone's wife, but that was a part of it. But a big part of it for me was also my career. This job I got laid off from. I'd spent my whole twenties working towards this job. It was, you know, what I'd dreamed of doing, and I'd worked so hard to get there. And then the apartment that I had, that my home that I'd built, all of these various things make up different, like they all come together in their various ways to make up our identity as a whole. So for me, the confusing part was they all went away at the same time. So yeah, and I was left wondering, okay, well, who the fuck am I without everything?

SPEAKER_03: 58:05

See, I think for me it was really different. Sorry, finished.

SPEAKER_00: 58:08

Sorry, I was totally kind of like the the city I was in as well. That was so special to me because it was the place I'd come to to rebuild myself whenever I'd gone there alone at 18 and and created it as basically a new life for myself from scratch. So that was such a special part to me as well. And to now be looking around thinking, I don't know if I even fit here anymore. I feel like my chapter here is done. Like this this was supposed to be a huge part of my story, but I think it's it's finished. Now I've done what I came here to do, and something is telling me to move on from here. I think, yeah, it was just a lot of a lot of different things at once that contributed to this identity.

SPEAKER_03: 58:54

Okay. So that was so yeah. So like I from the from that perspective, it is, yeah, it's very different. Because I think for me, you know, I chose to let go of the job and I chose to let go of the friendships, I chose to let go of of everything, the apartment. And I think the reason, I think the reason why it was it was that it was different for me, and I tied it to that relationship is because I think, although there was, although I was a very independent person and I was very career oriented, and I'd always, you know, I'd always had a very full life, there was this conditioning within me. And I don't think it came from my family. I don't I don't know where it came from, but there was this conditioning within me that told me that when I'm in a relationship, long-term relationship, a partnership, a marriage, or whatever, you know, I have to think in terms of creating a safe container, like prioritizing the relationship. And so there were many things like, you know, that I wanted to do and that I had planned to do before the relationship that came into my life. That I literally, like, okay, well, that's not happening now, right? A lot of it was travel. A lot of like there were so many things that were like, I want to write a book, I want to do all these things, right? And it's like all these dreams went kind of by the wayside because now I have this relationship that I have to prioritize. And so everything was kind of built around making sure that that had what it needed to thrive. And so I did get lost in it. And so the career choice, the apartment choice, the lifestyle choices, everything that I had chosen was part of creating this almost like a picture-perfect life that really didn't align for me, you know, at at the end of the day. And I think, you know, there were many reasons I think that our our relationship ended the way that it did, and the, you know, the pain that we went through and the heartbreak. And I think, you know, for many reasons, we were just, I think we were both very misaligned, if I'm being completely honest. Um, and so, you know, I think that all of that happened, the way that it ended, the way the patterns kind of showed up was kind of a wake-up call for me to say, like, yo, wake up because you you you're you're not meant to be here. This isn't what this isn't what we had planned for you, right? You need to like, you know, you need to step away from the step away from the from the life that you've created, step away from the relationship, step away from all of it. Because this, it was, it, it, it was, it was my biggest, it was my my one of my most profound learning grounds of, you know, of of of like I said, being moved through moving through the pain and moving through the heartbreak and moving through all the disappointment. So it was very transformative, it was very eye-opening, but it was also um, it wasn't meant to stay. And and and it very quickly let me know that and and put me on this path to rediscovering who I am and what I want to create for myself. And it took a long time to really, you know, get out of um, you know, the hurt, the disappointment, the betrayal, um, and really, really being able to see that even though, yeah, it was painful and uncomfortable, and I had to face so many self-worth issues on the other side of that and so many toxic patterns I needed to break. But ultimately, um, it was literally the best thing that ever happened to me. Literally, because it brought me back to myself and it brought me back to who I am meant to be, you know. And I wouldn't, I don't think I've ever would have been this person that I am now if that relationship had worked out.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:02:42

I wouldn't trade that for anything.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:44

I love that you were able to see that at the time. You were able to recognize that for yourself and have the balls to make that decision and make that be a choice.

SPEAKER_03: 1:02:56

Yeah, it was it was hard, it was scary. And I know a lot of people like actually like a lot of people would actually like some women actually came up to me and said, I wish I had the guts to do what you did. You know, and it's like what seriously it just blew up my life. Why, why, why is this, why is this a thing? But yeah, apparently a lot of women, a lot of a lot of women want to blow up their lives out there, so yeah, and I think yeah, from your story, it's so empiring that that was a choice that you made.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:27

And I think for me initially, obviously, none of that stuff that happened was my choice, but further down the line, then I have also made that decision for myself. I've walked away from jobs, departments, blown it all up through through choice, and and you did make a choice to use to take that moment and create something magical with it, you know, with your intention.

SPEAKER_03: 1:03:53

You did that, and that is very powerful and very inspiring. I think your story is actually more inspirational than mine. I was just being a brat who wasn't happy with her life. You actually took what the universe slapped in your face and made it into magic.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:07

You were being a woman who had the balls to listen to her own voice and create a life for herself that actually feels aligned rather than just staying on the hamster wheel of doing what was expected and what was logical. I think they're both they're both different stories. They're unique and inspiring in their own way, which is what I think makes this episode so hopefully amazing because we both have our unique knowledge and perspectives that we can bring on everything.

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:38

100%. I love it. 100%.

SPEAKER_03: 1:04:41

I love talking to you too. I love every time we get to spend time online together. And actually, we have a call coming, another one coming up in in a little bit. So I get more time with you today. Yay!

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:52

Do you think like And this just comes to mind because I think we had this conversation recently that we've both been in somewhat of a season at the moment of like shedding more old identities, yeah, into newness. And I think a little bit of the conversation we had was around this feeling of scarcity. And I was thinking about the reasons why we try and cling on so tightly sometimes to things we know have run their course and aren't aligned for us anymore. And I feel like along with the grief of letting go that past version of us, along with the fear of potentially not knowing what's next, I feel like another one of the big reasons we cling on is that scarcity feeling. Yeah. We're scared of letting things go because we don't believe that something better or even more aligned can come along for us. Or we're scared that, you know, we don't know how it's gonna happen. Yeah. I'm curious, has that come up for you recently?

SPEAKER_03: 1:05:59

That's been one of the biggest challenges in this whole journey for me is being able to trust that, you know, as I make these big scary bold moves where you know I it's not logical. I don't know how it's gonna work out. I'm in the middle of one right now. Like I've, you know, for me, like you know, I've always for the longest time I've I've carried the podcasts, I've you know, held I've I've worked with clients, but I've also you know held income on the side to kind of you know bridge the gap. And I've been in this, I've been in this place now where I've been without for a very long time. And I've kind of I was in this cycle where I just kept getting ejected out of jobs. So like I would get, and and it's funny, I always kept the jobs because you know, I always think, you know, it to me it means security, you know, working for somebody else, earning a paycheck, it means some sense of security. And I feel like something in the universe kind of said, Oh, okay, is that what you think? Okay, well, here's what we're gonna show you now. Like, let me let me let me reframe that for you, right? So I keep finding these jobs and the companies keep downsizing or closing or filing for bankruptcy or like you know, selling to another buyer and and and and then them restaffing the organization with their people. And it's like, like I just keep getting ejected out of jobs. And there was one that and there was one job actually in all of this that I actually really loved at first, but went south really quickly. Um, and the funny thing was is that, you know, we were um, you know, we were a new like a start, like a tech startup, right? I moved up into a leadership vote very quickly within that organization. Um and so, you know, being, you know, a woman in a leadership role in the in tech, like it had its challenges, you know what I mean? Um, but like one of the things that I I always that I realized the other day was that wow, like we were always looking for seed money. Like there were there were months where we didn't know where we had enough to cover our expenses from one month to the next. And so it was like this scarcity amplification and what for me felt like was supposed to be a sure thing. So the universe has done nothing but show me, listen, if you're looking for security, don't think that just because you're working for somebody else, you have security. Like you cannot, I think the lesson is you cannot create um security with a scarcity conscious consciousness with no matter where you are, doesn't matter if you're at a job, doesn't matter if you're running a business, none of it matters. What matters is your own belief and what feels aligned for you and and remembering that you will be taken care of in one practice that like the last couple of years has been like losing jobs, finding jobs, losing jobs, finding jobs, and and and you know, kind of going back and forth. Um, and I think the one thing that has gotten me through all of this and that I keep leaning into is whenever I feel like I'm facing something that I don't know how it's gonna work out, or I don't see a logical reason for how it's gonna work out, or I feel like I'm literally gonna like, you know, things are gonna like go south really quickly, is literally handing it over. Like I literally see myself handing it over to a higher power, whether it's my bank card, my bank account, my credit card, my home, my apartment keys, my car, whatever, whatever it is that I'm worried about. I literally just imagine myself handing it over, and it always somehow works out. And that's I can't give you an explanation to how, but it does.

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:39

Yeah, because it's not logical. That's why you can explain it. I do the same thing. I visualize myself just handing it over, like yeah, feel the weight being lifted off my shoulders and visualize myself just handing it over, and it feels good to release control.

SPEAKER_03: 1:09:58

It does, but it takes practice. Yeah, I don't know about you, but it takes practice. Like, I feel like I have to do it a lot sometimes. It's like, okay, hand it over, and then it's like, okay, I'm good, I'm fine, I'm good for about five minutes, and then it's like, no, I'm not. Hand it over again.

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:15

And I think this is so true of everything, like that scarcity mindset and being scared to let go. It's not just we're not just talking financially here or in terms of work, relationships is a huge one as well. Like being away because we don't know how or we can't see how something better is gonna come. And 100%.

SPEAKER_03: 1:10:39

Yeah, and they're tied together. Like remember, like as women, we've for generations. I mean, it's only very recently that we've actually created the independence to create live our own life, to have our own careers, you know. Um up until very recently, most women didn't have a chance in hell to survive in this life if she didn't have a husband to give her the security, the security that she needed. And then when we started, when we did start to go into the work for the workplace and started to to you know explore um, you know, creating more equal rights for women, you know, women started, you know, working hard and still taking all the responsibility of working at home. And so, you know, there's so much, I think, patriarchal conditioning that goes along with making sure we have a relationship to feel safe, and making sure we have um finances to feel safe. And without those two things, those two things, I think, for every and I'm just talking men, I'm not just talking women right now, I'm talking men too. These two things, especially the finances part, we feel so vulnerable and in danger if we don't have those in place. It is literally, I I really truly believe this is the chain of conditioning that needs to be broken the most because it's the one thing that is constantly keeping us in a disempowered state of trading our time for money and feeling like we won't survive if we don't, you know, and and it's scary to be in that position. And I know a lot of people are in that position right now, um, especially with what's happening in the economy, you know. And I think that it's showing us that the fear of what is our life if we don't have that, and are we can we even survive? Are we safe? Right? And the measures and the sacrifice that we're willing to make in order to attain that. And I think that's one thing that is really being amplified right now. I think collectively, and I think, you know, I always say this whenever something gets amplified, it's because it's ready to be transformed. So I really do believe that our behaviors and our relationship with money um is being transformed, and we're being, we're, we're, we're taking our sovereignty back from everything that made us feel that we couldn't be complete, whole, and safe beings with it. Like, so really for women, it was obviously relationships for a long time, and now the whole financial um aspect. We it we we struggle to feel safe without either one of those two things or both. Some women need both, you know. Um, but it is ingrained and it keeps us in a disempowered state, it keeps us trading our time for money and it keeps us from tapping into the potential that I really do believe that we are capable of when we recognize just how supported we actually are, just for sharing our gifts with the world, just for sharing our essence with the world, just for creating something from a soul-centered place instead of um what is traditional or logical, right? Or or rational, right? Like we were talking.

SPEAKER_00: 1:14:01

Yeah. Is that something you work with people on when you work with women through coaching, like creative safety?

SPEAKER_03: 1:14:10

Definitely, because I think that we need to create, you know, I um for those of you guys who don't know, like if you've if you're not followed the Femcast, I am I am a trauma-informed coach. And so the one thing I always prioritize when I'm working with people is creating that sense of safety, you know, because when we create safety around um, you know, having or not having, um you kind of relax. You can, you know, when you start to create that safety and knowing that you're not, I'm actually feeling like myself relaxed into my into my chair right now. But when you can create that feeling of safety where you're relaxed, where you're you know you're being held by a higher power, whatever that higher power is, when you know you're being held and you're being taken care of and everything is being handled for you, and you can just relax into the present moment, into who you are and what it is that you want to do, be and create, that's when the things that you're inspired to do start to show themselves. You'll never figure out what you're inspired to do by looking at a job ad or by going through like sifting through um an online recruitment thing or or doing another um, I can't remember all the names, the different assessment tools that they're using now in corporate, right? Like you're not, it's it's not there. It'll give you clues, sure, right? Like it'll it'll often give you clues. Um, but that's not where your life path is revealed. Your life path is revealed by first moving through the emotions that are keeping you stuck in old stories and old identities and old versions of yourself that um that really don't need to be here anymore. You're ready to move through and transform from. That's number one, and creating the safety in the present moment so that you can explore something that might not be what everyone else is doing or what everyone else thinks you should do, right? So those two things need to be there. And as you do that more and more, and you start to move through and um process the the emotions or the trauma that might be stored inside and create that sense of safety in the present moment, that's when your purpose starts to reveal itself. And this was a big part of my journey was discovering my purpose. I had no clue. Like I said, standing on a stage, couldn't see the people, didn't even know podcasting was a thing, but somehow it all magically unfolded. And the only way it did that was trust, safety, and just taking one tiny step at a time, listening to whatever guidance is coming through. And that took a hell of a lot of reprogramming to do and be able to lean into.

SPEAKER_00: 1:16:56

Yeah, and I think for me as well, uh, whether it's walking away, like when I'm thinking about walking away from, you know, whether it's a relationship, a job, or whatever, and uh going back to what we were saying about like a reason people potentially cling on to things. I feel like for me it it always comes back to identity and asking myself Yeah, is good enough good enough? Do I want to be someone? Do I identify as someone who accepts good enough as being good enough? And the answer is no, like regardless of what it is. I think what's that quote about um life will meet you at the level of your audacity? It's oh, I love that. I've never heard that before, but I love it. Yeah, what I I can't remember who said it, so I can't credit them. It wasn't me. But yeah, life will meet us at the level of our audacity. So what is it that you're willing to claim for yourself? What identity are you willing to claim for yourself? And whether it's in, as you were saying, like your purpose, your job, the way you make money, or whether it is a relate, your question in a relationship, or just what the path you want to take, whatever it is, what are you willing to claim for yourself? What are you accepting as just good?

SPEAKER_03: 1:18:17

100%. So true. And I think another important another reframe, I will, if or question reframe. Um, and and this goes back to that example of the woman who, you know, I always say after they're they're they're on the other side of a narcissistic relationship is how do I get back to the woman I was before? I think there's always a part of us, and again, this is a scarcity mindset, right? There's always a part of us that when we move through something very painful and something very traumatic, when we've lost something, we're always focused on what we've lost.

SPEAKER_01: 1:18:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:18:50

You know, and I think we need to be for a little while, right? Like I think we need to be there and we need to properly let go of what has left. And we need to grieve it and we need to process it and we need to stay present with that. But there comes a time when we need to say, okay, well, that's what I lost, and I've made peace with that, but what have I gained in that?

SPEAKER_04: 1:19:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:19:09

And where is it trying? And I think if you can switch that lens from what have I lost to what have I gained, and who is it actually inviting me to become now on the other side? Um, I think at some point everybody needs to make that that shift in order to reach that next level of transformation and to go through um to have their, you know, their reinvention, right? And and and move in a powerful way. And I think um, but again, you know, take your time and and be in the grieving and the letting go as long as as you need to be in order to do that.

SPEAKER_00: 1:19:46

Yeah. Yeah. And as well as what have I gained, what can I create? Like what have not what have I lost, what have I gained, but also what can I create? I think that's absolutely a powerful question.

SPEAKER_03: 1:20:00

Because it has given you tools to create something. You don't see it yet, but it has given you tools. Whether it's a rediscovered belief in yourself, whether it's the realization that you need to love yourself more, hold yourself to a higher standard, that you're capable of more than the world has always told you that you're capable of, those are tools. Those are insights, those are shifts that we can use to create something different, right? So tune into what those are, those lessons, and and how can you apply them to your life to create something amazing on the other side.

SPEAKER_01: 1:20:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:20:37

And that leads really nicely into another thing I wanted to talk about with you, actually, because we've both spoken a lot on our shows about self-love. And this is an area you've specialized in with function. And we've both talked about how it's not just the superficial stuff, it's actually the really most uncomfortable stuff, the radical honesty with ourselves when people don't want to hear it, the hard decisions, the doing things that are actually the opposite of what we want to be doing in this moment because we know it's for the higher good. And with the work that you've done and everything you've been through and your expertise, I'd love to get your thoughts on how self-love helps us through these transitions without abandoning ourselves and our needs. I feel it always comes back to self-love, doesn't it? It does.

SPEAKER_03: 1:21:34

I I I do believe that self-love is the foundation or needs to be the foundation of every decision that we make. Because when we love ourselves, when we come from that place of knowing our worth and really being able to take a stand for ourselves, um, we make different choices. You know, we make different choices, we um we attract different um opportunities. And I think it always has to come down to that. And I think, you know, I think the reason why it has been so difficult for so many of us and why self-love, like why it's become this big trend all of a sudden, is because I think for a long time we've been taught to take our like get our worth externally, get our get our worth validated externally, whether it's through relationships or how we look or how, you know, the things people say about us or the number of likes we have on an Instagram post, you know, like there's so many ways I think that we get um this dopamine hit of um, you know, feeling worthy, feeling good, feeling seen, feeling confident that if we can't learn to cultivate that for ourselves, we will continuously and perpetually make bad decisions and self-abandon when we feel like those things that we've come to rely on to make us feel good and worthy, that we now need, right? And now we're making decisions as to how we show up in those situations or relationships from a place of I can't lose you, so I'm willing to lose myself instead. Right. And every time we need someone or we need something, we've already lost ourself, right? And so when we can come from a place of knowing our worth and taking a stand for it, we no longer make those self-compromising decisions anymore. We're able to say, you know, and in many cases, you know, self-love is the you said it, like self-love is a difficult thing. It wasn't long ago that I was in a relationship with somebody who I truly, truly, truly loved and had to walk away from because I knew I couldn't have the life I wanted with that person. And so it didn't matter how much love was there, it didn't matter, none of it mattered. What mattered is I this is not the life I I I've chosen for me. And as much as I love him and I love like there's so many qualities for for there, I need to make the hard choice and and choose myself in this and choose the life I want to have for myself, right? And it's not to say that I need somebody to create that for me, but I do need somebody who's aligned in that with me, right? And so I think I think that is that's the biggest reason I think why self-love is is so important because we cannot make those choices when we when we don't love ourselves. We will continuously give our power away to somebody else to validate our experience, to validate our worthiness, um, and to um just give us that safety net that you know that we can't give to ourselves.

SPEAKER_00: 1:24:51

Yeah, it's so true. I think one of the biggest acts of self-love as well is just stop silencing our own voice and like oh amen. You just said like you were able to make that really difficult decision because you were able to listen to your own voice. And for so many of us, it it's so hard, it's such a process to even get to that point. And I think that is honestly one of the biggest gifts we can give ourselves, and for me as well, like one of on my journey, I don't I don't really like the word journey, but I can't think of a better word right now. Journey, which is self-love. Um one of the biggest things for me, and this has come up recently, is I realized how much power I was giving away in looking for answers in other people. Like coaches and they like I seem to and I've I've always been very strong on listening to my own voice, but there still just seemed to be this last little bit that was still part of me that thought, oh, maybe someone else has a better answer than me. Oh man, yeah. Or maybe it's looking at someone else's story and thinking, okay, that's what I should be doing. There was for me just this last little piece that was still looking for an answer outside of myself, and that's something I've really, really been working on this year. So yeah, that for me, self-love is oh, it's many things, but one of the biggest things is stop silencing your own voice and actually listen to what it has to say. Give yourself permission to listen to what it has to say because it's amazing. And if it is think you don't have the answers, I'm willing to bet it's because you've trained yourself for so long to look for them from other people. And so you just can't hear them now. It doesn't mean they're not there, it's just yeah, to retrain ourselves to listen to our own voices, and that for me is one of the biggest acts of self-love we can give ourselves.

SPEAKER_03: 1:27:05

Absolutely. I'm laughing. I'm laughing right now because I can't tell you how many times, and it's not to say that they were bad coaches. Well, one of there's a couple of of people out there that it probably wouldn't work with again, but for the most part, I've worked with some amazing coaches, but I can't tell you how many times I got advice from a coach and I knew it wasn't the aligned thing to do, and I felt it in my body. I felt it, it felt wrong. And what did I do? Did I listen to that? No, no, you tried to follow it anyway. I know, because I've done the same. I went like like literally, like a like like a was what do they call it? Is it the is it the the butt the buffalo running through into the storm? Like like like a buffalo into a storm. I went head first and and dove right in and did all the things that they told me to do, only to find out like after a year or two of like struggling to make it work. And I'm like, maybe this isn't the thing.

SPEAKER_00: 1:28:01

Maybe I should have listened to myself. Yeah, to be clear, there are amazing coaches. This isn't to bring up coaches. I had a coaching session with you a couple uh a week ago, which was incredible. Um, and I think we'll was gonna talk a little bit about it, but we've talked about so many other things. Maybe it should be an episode in itself where I'll it was incredible. Um, so we're definitely not bringing down all coaches here, but just in general, like, yeah, we need to stop looking for the answers outside of ourselves. And that's the thing.

SPEAKER_03: 1:28:36

That's the thing. There are amazing coaches out there. There are so many, I've met so many soul-centered women that are really just out here and men who are really just out here trying to make the world a better place and trying to make people um just come home to themselves and their power and their and their worth. But I, you know, always, always, always, like you said, you know, checking in with yourself and and listening to what your voice is telling you and trusting that above what and don't give your power away to this person or that person just because they figured it out. Maybe what worked for them might not work for you. Maybe, maybe your, maybe your higher self, your whatever you want to call it, your soul, your higher wisdom, you know, maybe it has a different plan for you. Maybe it has a different path of what's gonna work. And if you're not trusting yourself and you're constantly giving your power away to other people to to make those decisions for you or to figure out that path for you, it's very hard to find alignment if you're taking the guidance from other people because you're the only one who knows what your alignment, your soul alignment looks and feels like and what what path you're meant to take. Nobody else can can give that to you.

SPEAKER_00: 1:29:45

Yeah, absolutely. And and that's not the same as taking inspiration from people. We can absolutely take inspiration. Definitely. I mean, that's what I did going back to the story I told at the beginning about how I started listening to podcasts. Like it can be life-changing to take inspiration from other people. Yeah, different, a very different thing. Don't cross over the line into then outsourcing all of your pyr to them.

SPEAKER_03: 1:30:13

A hundred percent. That's why I always love to do story podcasts as opposed to like the traditional how-to podcast. Although I do do those, but I always say, like, this is how I did it, this is how my clients have done it, take what resonates, leave the rest. Like, you know, because I think at the end of the day, everybody's story is their story and everybody's path is their path. And I think that, and this is just a call to all coaches and content creators and everybody out there trying to, you know, help us come home to ourselves is really like, yes, share your story, share what worked, share what didn't, but always just thinking about how we can empower people to go back to their own inner knowing, right? Like we can give tips, we can give guidance, and we can do all these wonderful things, but always empowering people to go back to their own inner knowing because I do believe that we all have a unique path and we all have a purpose for being here. I believe that with with every bone and molecule in my body. Um, and I believe that when we follow whatever that purpose is, we contribute to a higher good that we can explain, whether it's on a small scale or a large scale, doesn't matter. And the only way, the only path to getting there is through, like you said, listening to ourselves.

SPEAKER_00: 1:31:27

Yeah. And no coach should ever be telling you what to do. It's like you said, it's always guiding someone to come back to themselves and be able to listen to their own voice. Don't trust a coach who says they they can tell you the exact thing to do that's gonna work for you or something. Oh my god, sell you an exact blueprint of something. That is not the way.

SPEAKER_03: 1:31:49

Yeah. Yep. I had that very, I actually had that experience very early on. You're gonna do this, you're gonna do A, B, C, and D. And I was like, but it doesn't feel right. And it was, you know, this was probably not the best coach, right? Where it was like, oh, you're just sabotaging yourself. You're you're you're you're coming, you're coming up against your own resistance. Get out of your way, you have to do it. It's all mindset. Like, but it really just it doesn't feel right. Like something's something's not right about this. It doesn't feel aligned for me. I I did I trust myself.

SPEAKER_00: 1:32:21

Those things though are the are the things that help you start to trust yourself because that's it is you know, we learn not to go against our own voices. It was the biggest lesson for me. They're all part of the example. Biggest lesson. Um, oh my god, I could talk to you all day. I know, I know. I'm looking at the clock right now. I know. Like as we need to start to wrap up. Stepping into that next version of ourselves, what are your thoughts and experiences and guidance from the work you've done? How can we consciously create and continue to consciously create from that place rather than falling back into old habits, old energy cycles, and I guess recreating our old patterns just to perform? Like what's been your experience with yeah, my go-to.

SPEAKER_03: 1:33:19

Um, and you know, this, like I've done a I've done a daily practice religiously for years, right? Um, and I have different tools that I, you know, I'll pull, I'll pull into my practice depending on what the seasons, what season I'm I'm moving through. But you know, moving through this space of of really trying to step into this next level version or this reinvention or whatever you want to call it, um, especially now with the business and the podcast and everything and the and and my coaching practice, is really tuning into, and and I do this daily, right? Because I always want, like I I do my morning, I do my daily practice in the morning because I always want to have that check-in, like you said, like to listen to my voice and what it's trying to tell me and to let that guide my day, not let my day guide the decisions that I'm making. Because sometimes the day will do that to us, right? The day will take over and we will have very little control over what we're doing. But um, if I can have that quick check-in in the morning, and I always try to check in to say, what am I feeling right now? What's coming up for me? Just allowing it to be there and allowing it to be present, right? Tuning into what that next step looks like for me in this moment and knowing and giving myself permission to let it evolve from day to day to day to day, yeah, right. And letting it be a living, breathing thing that I get to kind of revisit and explore and expand on, and then from there deciding okay, so. So if that's if that's what I'm if that's what I'm focused on creating today, who am I being today? What am I doing? What am I gonna stop doing? Because we do this. Yeah, I did not need to stay up last night till two o'clock in the morning watching reruns of vampire diaries. I did not need to do that, but I did. So what I'm going to stop doing is staying up late at night, finish watching old shows, right? And start doing my start doing today was actually, you know, tuning out at 8 p.m., having like doing my somatic stretches and getting cozy and having a nice herbal tea and you know, maybe putting something on the TV that's more soothing, or maybe just ditching the TV all together after that and putting on a podcast or something, or something that kind of taps me into like a more relaxed energy so I could rest. Rest is really important for me right now so that I can, so that I can actually have the it's it I don't suppose the energy to move through, but it's about creating more of a a flow state, creating this this energy of like the making every day like kind of like a moving prayer, you know, where you kind of take those little sacred moments to kind of um tune in and and and play in your energy. I think that that's that's kind of been the focus for me. Um and so you can if you want, I can check in later and let you know if I actually like shut the TV off at 8 p.m.

SPEAKER_00: 1:36:25

Yes, I want to know. Um yeah, I love that. And for me, visualization is a huge one. I've been visualizing since before I even knew what I was doing, and before I knew it was an actual practice, um, literally my entire life, as far back as I can remember. So for me, it's as you said, a daily practice. I take every day to connect with her, to connect with that version of myself that I'm moving into. And I don't know, I don't like the term like the new version of myself because I feel like she's not new, she's always been there. We kind of awakened, yeah, cultivated. We quietened her, we buried her under all of these identities we've kind of picked up over the years because we thought we should, or we thought we had to, and she just kind of got lost. We buried her. That is such a powerful like way of like describing it. Yeah, we as we took on who we thought we were supposed to be, she got a bit lost. So I prefer to think of it more of a a coming back to her rather than creating a new her. So for me, taking some time, even just you know, five, 10 minutes, even just you know, 30 seconds, if that's all you have, if you can just stop and and tune into that, take 30 seconds. For me, that is so powerful, and it just keeps me connected to her and connected to what I'm working towards every single day. Um, so yeah, that is my true sense on that.

SPEAKER_03: 1:38:01

As you're talking, I'm hearing that song from Maiden Manhattan. I'm coming out. Um playing in my head. And actually, that's another thing that's really important. I don't know about you, but music for me can teleport me in minutes. Yeah. So I always have like a playlist of what I feel like just encapsulates what it is, that vibe I'm trying to capture, and I'll just like keep it playing like constantly. So you don't need to add that song to the playlist. I actually do, I you know what, I actually do have a playlist on my um on my website where I add like, and that that's literally the playlist that I listen to when I'm trying to like try like tap into that essence and that vibe and and and you know, kind of, you know, that juiciness that I want to capture in my day, and and and it's literally it's all there. So I'm gonna add that song to it as soon as we get off the call.

SPEAKER_00: 1:38:55

I have one final question for you. If you could speak to the version of you who is on the edge of her biggest ending, or you know, pick any of them, what would you tell her?

SPEAKER_03: 1:39:11

I'm gonna cry. You always do this to me right at the end. Um you're not gonna you're not gonna die from the pain. You're actually gonna be reborn from it. It's it's this is not the end, this is the beginning. And no matter how painful it is right now in this moment, you are going to catapult and yourself and create a life that you didn't even know was possible up until this point. The like the the the craziness that you're gonna experience, the adventures that you're gonna have, the way you're gonna inspire people, you don't have any any idea. And no matter how uncomfortable it is right now, no matter how painful it is right now, just know that magic is waiting for you on the other side. I love that so much. You're not gonna die from the pain. Yeah, because it felt like that. I'm sure it felt like that for you too. Yeah, oh yeah. It felt hard to breathe some days, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 1:40:24

I can even describe that is a perfect note to end on. I think this has been an amazing chat, as always.

SPEAKER_02: 1:40:34

I love chatting with you always.

SPEAKER_00: 1:40:36

Thank you. Let's make a regular thing. Let's do a monthly monthly um coffee with Gemma and Maria. Coffee date. Well, thank you so much for doing this. Do you want to thank you? I'll I'll put all of your information in our show notes for any of the amuse yourself listeners who want to connect with you who haven't already previous episodes.

SPEAKER_03: 1:41:02

I'll leave all your information down below where people can can reach out to you, get a hold of you, follow you. You're amazing. Honestly, I I just you've you've got so much wisdom and experience and um just inspiration that you share all the time. So I honestly, if if you've been an avid listener of the Femcast, um definitely give her a follow. Um, her life has been literally that that moving prayer that we talked about. So you'll definitely find some inspiration there.

SPEAKER_00: 1:41:33

And Sam, anyone who hasn't had a chance to listen to the first two episodes of the show that I've recorded with Maria, please go back and give those a listen. This woman, her stories are also incredible. Um, yeah, really just uh can recommend that enough. I'll link both of them in the show notes to make it really easy for you. And go listen to the femme cast, follow her on Instagram. The stuff she shares is just absolute gold. And I'm so excited to see where this new direction in your business takes you as well and how many women you help. So yeah. Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Wonderful.